From Precious
April, 2010
In Conversation With: Lola Shoneyin
By P J Cobham
Nigerian-born writer and educator Lola Shoneyin is currently on a whistle-stop
tour of London promoting her first published novel The
Secret Lives of Baba Segi’s Wives (Serpents’ Tale). Tackling the thorny and much debated
subject
of polygamy, set in Nigeria the story revolves around patriarch Baba Segi,
his three wives and the tumultuous arrival of the well-educated Bolanle,
the fourth. I began by asking the renowned poet (So
All the Time I was Sitting on an Egg (1998), Song of a Riverbird (2002) and For the Love of Flight 2010)
why she chose polygamy as the subject matter...
LS: Polygamy is in my family history. My mother was opposed to it;
she didn’t want me going down that path but...I wanted to write something
fresh and I wanted to write something from the wives point of view. I had
this particular story in my head for a very long time. It was based
on a true story that was told to me by a medical student that was actually
present in the hospital where (in the book) Baba Segi took his wife. In
polygamous households you often find the husband enjoying the prominence.
For
the wives, and in some households there are many of them, their relevance
within that family unit is greatly reduced. I wanted a situation where
they would come together and from the readers’ perspective, be able to
hear their voices and their thoughts. We all have within our
heads an idea of how the patriarch would think and feel, which is why
the chapters in which Baba Segi appears are from the wives perspective.
For me, it was very important that their voices were
heard.
PJ: There doesn't appear to be much warmth among the wives. They seem cut-throat and particularly his first three wives, quite mercenary.
LS: It is rare in polygamous households for any sort of warmth among the women. By its' very nature, wives compete against each other for time and affection and other things.
It’s a beautifully constructed story: funny yet disconcerting in equal measure.
LS: I believe a good novel has to be based on a good story. It has to be story driven. I also think that I was lucky in that the issue of Jacob Zuma (the South African President) coming to the UK and bringing his third wife with him brought up the debate of polygamy, just as the book came out. It wasn't planned, but it was a good co-incidence and generated a great deal of publicity, not only about him but for my novel too.
How long did it take you to write the book.
LS: Altogether it probably took around 18 months. The problem was I was studying, working full time, and I have four children, so there were times I’d had to leave it and do other things,so it was 18 months over four or five years. I would concentrate on writing for a few months here and there. I do write very fast though. Other writers have commented on my ability to write very quickly but for me, once I have the story, everything else is easy.
Have you always written?
LS: From a young age. My passion for poetry began in the 1990s and it has continued. I have read some wonderful writers: Alice Walker, Maya Angelou, to Ntozake Shange. I also love Toni Morrison and I am a fan of Diran Adebayo's work. There are many others that I enjoy.
Your childhood is just as fascinating as your life as a writer.
LS: While growing up I went to boarding school in Edinburgh when I was six years old. My parents lived in Nigeria and my brothers had kind of gone off one by one when they reached a certain age. I was only the second girl in the school, the headmasters daughter was the other one. I was there for many years before going back home to Nigeria and then coming back again to study at a school in Bristol. I then finally joined my brothers in a school in Edinburgh, then went back to Nigeria to live. Basically I go back and forth. My childhood was very interesting, I learned very quickly how not to miss people. I mean having to leave your family behind at that age was very difficult to start with. I just learnt to compartmentalise.
That must have been quite a process. Why did your parents choose Scotland?
LS: It was a choice my parents made. I was the last of six children
and the only girl. One by one my brothers were leaving for Edinburgh. I
think my Mum...she was very busy at the time, working as a lecturer,
sent me over to protect me above anything else. Maybe she thought she was
not able to watch over me as much as she would have liked because she was
so busy. She thought it was safer to send me off to Edinburgh. I think
as the only girl, she made it feel like I was a bit more vulnerable
to certain things and people in Nigeria.
Do you think those childhood experiences shaped you?
LS: To be honest, in many ways I can’t even consider what it would have been like if I'd had a different life. My experiences span a variety of countries. I have childhood friends that I still have. One thing that it has done for me which I appreciate more than anything is that it has given me the ability be able to be friends with people of all races and all cultures without prejudice and to really just look at the person rather than what colour they are. The other thing of course, on the downside, is leaving home that early before your character is properly formed. My parents thought they were doing the best for me but I wasn't prepared when I went to Edinburgh, I didn't understand British culture and the racism that came with it. You go to boarding school anywhere and you have to develop a double personality. There is one for home and there is one for school, which can be dangerous.
Dangerous?
LS: It is about coping. It's about adapting to who and where you are.
Did you really say that seven percent of your time is taken up by day-dreaming?
LS: Yeah, that quote is on my website.
What do you day-dream about?
LS: (Laughing) I don't know... a lot of my day dreams are very negative I must say. I am a real worrier. I worry a lot about Africa, if I we are ever going to make progress, my generation, my children, their futures, whether they have a future, is their life and prospects in Nigeria or the UK? I also think about my own future. I give up a lot of my time thinking up stories and I realise as I've grown older and because of the different experiences that I've had; my childhood and elements of it are very different to other people. I think that if I ever had to account for my life, what aspects are worth writing about?. You know things like that.
Does dividing your time between Nigeria and London add to those worries?
LS: No, not really. I own a property here in the UK. I acquired it because I was thinking of my children and about the universities here. I was making provisions for them, should they want to study here and not in Nigeria. I really wanted them to have a place to stay. I don't own a home in Nigeria so I consider the UK as my home. It’s always refreshing coming back to the UK, I love it. I absolutely love London. I think it’s one of the best cities in the world. In Nigeria the energy is different, you know? The warmth is different. For me, living in Abuja is just the fact that there isn't that much to do, that's the one thing that annoys me sometimes, but that is also good for me because I have more time to write you know? I don't engage so much with the social aspect of living there (Nigeria) much, but you know. I am able to go back and forth with great ease. I have the support of a wonderful husband and blessed with my four children.
Finally Lola, if you could define yourself in five words what would they be?
LS: Umm...this is difficult. I try not to go into self-analysis. But I know my husband always describes me as funny, unpredictable & passionate. Oh I need two more don't I?
And I'm going to make you come up with those last two!
LS: (Laughing) Okay. I would say that; bearing in mind, what we've already talked about, I would definitely say ....responsible. No, dutiful. Dutiful is better and ...creative.
The Secret Lives of Baba Segi’s Wives by Lola Shoneyin is out
now. Buy it now
In Conversation With: Divine Unity
By P J Cobham
South London born trio Divine Unity are an up-and-coming girl group comprising of university graduates, Sharlene( 24), Sacha (25), and Martina (23). Mixing an eclectic blend of pop music sung with naturally soulful voices, their career began in church before graduating to performing at venues all over the UK.
The award winning trio have graced the stage at the National Exhibition Centre and The Drum Theatre in Birmingham, as well performing to a sold out crowd at the Royal Festival Hall and Symphony Hall. The talented singer/songwriters have also worked with the likes of Soul Legend Omar and two-time MOBO Award Winning saxophonist, Yolanda Brown.
The girls are currently in rehearsals for an eight week stint at Charlotte Street Blues which will see them performing throughout February and March 2010. I caught up with them for a quick chat...
P J Cobham: So, how did you all meet?
Sharlene: We all met by going to the same church and we have been singing together and individually since we were young. It has really been in the past three or four years that we have taken things more seriously and actually become a group. Before that we kind of did it for fun.
P J: Tell me about your ‘sound’. You've said in the past that you define it as a mixture of pop with a soulful feel.
Sharlene: Yeah, that's exactly what it is. I think it’s because of our backgrounds really; of singing in church, that our voices are naturally quite soulful. But having said that Sacha’s voice is probably the least soulful voice out of the three of us. She has a very unique sound that compliments the group but ultimately our voices are very soulful. In terms of the music though, we have quite a ‘pop’ kind of sound.
P J: You pride yourself on being singer/songwriters. Was that a conscious decision and will you ever consider singing covers?
Sharlene: When we do our own Divine Unity set it’s our own work that we perform, but for our Charlotte Street set of concerts, especially those that led up to Valentine’s Day we sang covers. With our own album it will just be our own stuff.
P J: Is there a 'lead' songwriter or do you all share the duties?
Sharlene: Well, we all have different strengths. Sacha and I are the main songwriters of the group, but Martina comes up with great ideas that add to the strength between the three of us. I do hear musical ideas and generally I have a little bit more input in terms of the music and the production side of things, but Sacha has such a unique way to writing songs. If you tell her to write a song about birds, she can write it, just like that. I can’t write like that, I can only write inspirationally but Sacha can quickly write about anything.
P J : You have supported artists such as Basement Jaxx, would else would you like to work with?
Sharlene: There are many...Take That. Yeah, yeah. Working with Take That would be fantastic. I love Gary Barlow’s work, especially his writing ability, he is an excellent song writer and we would love to work with him in the future.
P J : So is 'modern' music where you're at?
Sharlene: You know what? all three of us are inspired by different things. Different kinds of music. For me I was raised on real traditional gospel, so I like artists like the Clarke sisters, people like that but it’s weird because it doesn't necessarily influence my style of music as I listen to everything. Gospel is definitely the heart of me.
Sacha: I am more influenced by '80’s and early 1990’s pop. I love the UK electro sound that came with that time. It’s the kind of music that influences what I write. I also like artists such as Coldplay, so you are likely to hear those kinds of influences in the songs that I write.
Sharlene: I also like Lauryn Hill - she is an amazing artist - as well as Coldplay.
P J: What are your plans for 2010?
Sharlene: We are really excited about 2010. We want people to come and see our work, get our fans to come out and support us. I think it’s just about focusing on us really and playing at different venues. Sacha, Martina and I would also love to support other artists, but really we are working on our EP which is our main focus. We are hoping that, or aiming for it to come out sometime in the summer. For us, it’s just to promote, promote, promote. That is what it’s all about this year. It’s hard work but it’s all about getting out there and being seen.
P J: Before I let you go so that you can continue on your busy and exciting year, what would you like precious readers to know about you?
Sharlene: We are down to earth, ordinary girls and that's the truth. We love to sing and we love music. We would love for people to know that because we are focused about why we sing. We want to inspire, uplift and encourage people to love our music because we get a lot of joy through what we do and we really like that to come across when they hear us.
The three of us in our separate lives have been mentors to young people; Martina has a natural flair with young people and for us it is important to be inspiring role models, so if anybody wants to ask what Divine Unity are all about, I would definitely say, we want to give you great songs, we want to make you smile, sing and dance. For us it’s about success, achieving your goals and inspiring people, young and old.
Performance Dates: 21st, 28th February
2010,
7th, 14th, 21st, 28th March 2010
Times: 1pm – 5pm (including 3 half hour breaks)
Address: Charlotte
Street Blues,
The Blues Bar
74 Charlotte Street
London, W1T 4QH
http://www.charlottestblues.com/
In Conversation With:Lizzy Dijeh
By P J Cobham
Life is decidedly good right now for young British-Nigerian playwright Lizzy
Dijeh. She's savouring a brilliant year which so far includes securing
a deal with Oberon books, a nomination for the prestigious Alfred Fagan Award
and
seeing her first play produced at the nationally-renowned Hampstead Theatre,
London.
This remarkable transposition marking Dijeh’s professional foray in the theatrical arena is a successful one. On the back of her recent production the ‘High Life’, things are about to get even more busy for this talented young lady.
PJ Cobham: You've just completed a run of ‘The
High Life’ a tale about “cultural conformity and pride battling against
ethics and moral courage” at the Hampstead Theatre, London, adapted from
your novel of the same name. How was the creative process for you?
Lizzy Dijeh: Fine. The play was a success and I think for me it was all about family. I like to write about the family dynamic and I wanted to write from my own cultural perspective. There are not a lot of plays about African culture in British theatres at the moment and I think for me that was interesting enough to want to see my culture (Nigerian and British) reflected out there.
PJ: So is being of dual heritage the main focus of what you write about?
Lizzy: I don’t think it’s conscious, but I suppose it is in a way wanting to show the differences between or the problems that can arise trying to balance two cultural perspectives, so from that point it is important to me. I mean, I don’t start writing and then actively think, “I’ve got to show this or that”. It depends really.
PJ: What drew you writing?
Lizzy: I've always wanted to write. Since I was a child, really. I have always been a writer in some form. It’s always something I wanted to do.
PJ: How satisfying is it to finally see the fruits of your labour? You must be pleased with your success so far?
Lizzy: In terms of being a playwright, yes. I began by writing poems in school and my first noted success was when I won the London Writers’ competition when I was about 19, for a poem that I wrote when I was 16, so I have been writing a lot of poetry for some time now. It’s only in recent years that I have focused on playwrighting.
PJ: Who has influenced your career?
Lizzy: I'm a really great fan of Arthur Miller, because I love plays about the family. Two of my favourite plays are ‘A View From The Bridge’ and ‘Death Of A Salesman’. I also love Lorraine Hansberry’s work because it's generally about family and family issues.
PJ: So from an audience perspective is a Lizzy Dijeh play a family play or am I limiting you?
Lizzy: It's a subject that I enjoy writing about, but I also feel I need to be challenged and be challenging as a writer. I love writing about the complexities of life and different aspect of society. I believe that a true writer, a good writer needs to push themselves and not stick to one thing.
PJ: So what are your future plans Lizzy? What direction do you see yourself and your work taking?
Lizzy: I hope to gain a second production. I’ve recently had a reading of one of my plays, so I’d like to go back to that and develop it, see where that can go, hopefully to my next production. I have to keep pushing myself to keep moving forward really. I am always brimming with ideas. I’d also like to continue to explore in my work, wider themes and maybe wider issues and I would also like to work in TV.
PJ: Wow. That is one serious career plan.
Lizzy: Yes it is but the most important thing is that I enjoy writing and I get itchy fingers if I don’t write. I might begin thinking of the next project before the current one finishes. I am constantly thinking about moving forward and looking ahead.
You can see Lizzy Dijeh performing her work at the Southbank Centre on 31st October celebrating the 25th Anniversary of WASAFIRI magazine.
‘High Life’ can be purchased at: http://www.amazon.co.uk/High-Life-Lizzy-Dijeh/dp/1840029056
In Conversation With: Sandra Bee
By P J Cobham
Sandra Bee
is simply a vibrant, funny comedian and actress who's a joy to talk
to. She launches the new version of her
hugely popular one woman show, A
Night To Remember... (Bringing Sexy Back!) Its a unique production that takes us on a musical, emotional but above
all hilarious journey through the music of unsung songstresses from the
1920s to the present day. In between fits of laughter I began by asking
Sandra why she hadn’t been on our screens in recent times...
PJ Cobham: Where have you been? We all thought you’d done a Gina (Yashere) and
moved to America?
Sandra Bee (Laughing): I did the Lion King for a year and I think when you’re out for so long people will call you to do things but you can’t because when you are doing a West-End show, eight shows a week you can’t do anything else. It is virtually impossible. I played ‘Shenzi’ (the role played by Whoopi Goldberg ) then after my run ended, nothing happened. I wondered what I was going to do, so I decided to think about devising stuff and thinking about what I could do to come back. Something worthwhile. The last big thing I did was the Lion King so I had to try to think of ways I could up my game and do one better and what I’m doing right now is 100% better.
PJ: 'A Night To Remember' is a revival of your original 2003 production isn’t it?
SB: Yeah, It’s about ‘Bringing Sexy Back’. I originally did an improvised version of it in 2001, then I brought it to the Oval House Theatre, London in 2003. I saw this advert where they were looking for acts about immigration and identity and this is what my show is all about. Yeah, my girl Charlene (the character in the play) has an identity crisis, (she begins to laugh) I shouldn’t laugh at her should I? Basically I just applied to do it again.
PJ: How do you feel about carrying a show on your own?
SB: I am in the gym everyday. I’m not a size 10,
I’m in my late 30’s and basically you just have to be on top of your game.
This time around I
made sure I was aware of every aspect of what I was doing. I’m producing
and writing the show myself. I’m also co-writing the music and anyone who
has worked with me will tell you I’m very strict and direct because every
department has to be hot. I got a wicked review from Time Out when I first
did the show in 2003, so I need to come back bigger and
better.
In 2003 I was a lot younger then and things have happened
over the years. My mum died a couple of years ago
and since that happened I’ve been taking risks. If something’s not right, get
it
out. I have applied that to my show too. If something isn’t right, I take it
out. Everyone knows that. I'm working with Verona White who is a fantastic
stylist. She styles people like June Sarpong, Katie Price… my God she has done
all my shows so she’s back on the team. She knows how I work.
I’m not easy
at the best of times and a little direct but that’s how you’ve got to be. I’m
their producer as well as the actor. We are also friends too so with lots of
things all mixed up we just have to set the targets. I also have a wonderful
director in Ryan Romain. He has said he’s looking forward to directing me as
I’m one big bundle of fun and a diva… (Laughing) he can’t wait to bring out
my best points and that’s what it’s all about.
PJ: Being and doing everything on this show will be stressful. How do you relax and take that necessary ‘pause’?
SB: Well now I have someone doing the administration. When you first produce a show you are doing the ringing round…publicity, marketing that sort of thing, but now coming closer to the opening night, I have to concentrate on what I’m doing, because this time around I am writing the script myself. The discipline is there 100%. I write out a timetable get up in the morning, spend a few hours working on the script, an hour with the singing, an hour to email the admin guy, the musical director. Overall, I have a great team. It’s hard for me to let go sometimes but I have a wonderful team behind me.
PJ: When thinking about new characters, what is your main focus? Interesting or funny?
SB: Both. Sometimes I get ideas from being in someone’s house, meeting new people; I’ve still got some of the old characters; Mr Tearup and Baby Monster but I’ve added some new ones (she goes into performance mode and introduces some of them.) I have this new one called Mr O’Tool. (She gives me a hilarious taster) He’s Irish. Everybody knows I like the Irish accent. So now that I have the character I now have to think about where to put him.
“Mr O’Tool likes black people, he married a black woman who sadly died but he is known in his local area for his libido” …
(burst into fits of laughter) I think the key is to develop your characters well. As a black woman I have to convince people that I am this Irish white man. If you develop your characters well, you can pull it off.
PJ: Not many people know this but you were in the film ‘Derailed’ with Clive Owen and Jennifer Aniston. What was it like working with them?
SB: Oh my god. I was sooo nervous. When my agents send me for an audition they never tell you what it’s for. You just go for a part. You read the script and when they tell you you have the part they let you know what the part is. They told me I was going to be in a film with Jennifer Aniston. I said: 'What?' I was shocked. I was in three scenes with her. The main scene was originally done as a trailer. In one rehearsal I just told her it was an honour to work with her and kissed her. I introduced myself to Clive and he was miffed he didn’t get the same treatment I gave Jennifer. (laughing) I even got one of my own original lines kept in the scene. Jennifer is fabulous, gorgeous, talented, and it was an honour. You know you have to be up there with your game when you are acting in a scene with Jennifer Aniston. I am very proud of that film.
PJ: Apart from ‘Bringing Sexy Back’ what other plans do you have?
SB: I would really like to tour it. I also have a play called ‘Girls On A Mission’ about a one-hit wonder girl group and I'm in talks with a wonderful director called Amanda Huxtable, so hopefully I will put that on next year. I did a drama last year called Gunrush with Timothy Spall and David Harewood, I think it's due to be released at the end of the year. I want to mix things up a bit. I love comedy but I also love drama as well. You just have to go with it. Wherever life takes you.
*Precious was delighted to be a media partner of this show!
In Conversation With: Noma Dumezweni
By P J Cobham
In recent years black actors and actresses have been embraced by mainstream
audiences here in the UK and in Hollywood. Sophie Okonedo, (Hotel
Rwanda, The Secret Life of Bees, Dirty Pretty Things, Aeon Flux ), Chitewel Ejiofor (Dirty
Pretty Things, American Gangster) Marianne Jean-Baptiste (Without A Trace)
and Lennie James (Jericho, A Touch Of Frost, Spooks, Storm Damage) have all have
become hot property.
In amongst them is Noma Dumezweni(pictured, left in rehersals) This charismatic
actress, born in Swaziland, of South African parents and brought up in
Suffolk, is
smart, engaging and passionate about what she does.
After winning the much coveted Olivier Award for Best Supporting Actress
for her performance in A
Raisin In The Sun, (following in the footsteps of
great
actresses such as Ruby Dee and Phylicia Rashad) Noma has continued her journey
with theatre credits that include several seasons at Chichester Festival
Theatre, appearances in; President of an Empty Room and The Hour We Knew
Nothing Of Each Other at the National Theatre, London, Breakfast with Mugabe, Antony
and Cleopatra and Much Ado About Nothing for the RSC; Six Characters Searching
for an Author at the Gielgud Theatre and the celebrated The Bogus Woman at
the Traverse and Bush Theatres.
With this distinguished resume in mind, I begin by asking Noma how the rehearsals
are going for her latest stint at the Royal Shakespeare Company.
PJ Cobham: So, how are the rehearsals going?
Noma Dumezweni :I’m still loving it. The previews are next week so talk to me
then. I think I’ll
probably be in freak mode. (laughs) I think it’s because we’re still in
London and don't travel to Stratford upon Avon until Thursday.
But it’s
been great. It’s a lovely company, I'm very honoured to be part of it.
It makes all the difference when you enjoy the people you are working
with. No-one is taken up with bad energy,it’s literally all about the work which
is great.
PJ Cobham: Tell me a little bit about Paulina, the character you play in ‘The
Winters Tale’?
Noma Dumezweni: It’s a really nice part. I'm a little bit scared though; she's a strong woman
and
I am one of those people who didn't know anything about The Winters’ Tale,
When I told people I was going to do the play, they loved the idea.
Since
rehearsals began, I can see why they loved it, because it works. Paulina is a
strong feisty woman in this dominating world of men. Everyone in the
play tip-toes around issues but Paulina tackles them head on. She says what
she thinks. It’s exciting to play those kinds of parts. Scary but exhilarating.
PJ Cobham: Is the difference in personality between you and Paulina the
reason you were drawn to play her?
ND: Totally. I am much more accommodating and not good with confrontation. I am quite the diplomat. Paulina is brilliant in that she is not afraid to call a spade a spade. It is a lovely energy which I try to find within me. It is quite liberating.
PJ Cobham: Your career with the RSC has been long and varied. You are
now on its board, how did your relationship with the company
begin?
ND: It started with Greg Doran. 1999. He was then the associate director of the
RSC. It was a long time ago but basically I auditioned for a play he was
doing
at the time. I didn't get it but it was one of those situations that left me
with
“Whatever happens I know I did good”.
Three months later I got a call that
Greg wanted to see me again. He said that he enjoyed what I did last time
and knew this play was coming up. He didn't want me to get the part I had
originally gone for, for that reason. The part he wanted me for was playing
one of the witches in Macbeth. Which was fantastic!
The Winters’ Tale is my 4th time at the RSC. While I was doing other interesting things, Michael Boyd called me and asked me to be on the board as he put it: “ Because lets be honest about it, we need ethnic minorities on the board to tell us what we need to do.”
I was tempted to say “Is it because I'm black?” in a jokey way and he said yes, but I am very happy. It is what it is and you are aware of it, but you let it go because the prize is worth so much more, you know?
What is brilliant is that the board is full of people who are passionate about the RSC and I am one of two actors and it is lovely hearing other people’s passion for Shakespeare. I was in awe of doing the job at first but when I just sat back and concentrated on the job I appreciated where I was. I am still learning how it all works.
PJ Cobham: What would be the challenge if you knew everything?
ND: (Laughing) I know. I know. It would be so boring.
.
PJ Cobham: I saw you in a production of A Raisin In The Sun. it was in 2006.
Your Olivier Award for Best Supporting Actress has put you
in an elite group of actors who have won awards all over the
world for that play.
ND: Really? Wow. I didn’t know that. I mean I did remember that Audra McDonald who played and won an award on Broadway for the same role I played. But I didn't know whenever there is a production someone always gets something. Wow. That's fantastic. But it is an amazing play.
.
PJ Cobham: Why do you think that after over forty years since the play was
written it is still as relevant today as its ever been?
ND: The writer, Lorraine Hansberry, died at the age of 34 and you think
“sweet lord” to be able to have that way about you ... there was so
much more to come. People have said, if she had lived longer she’d be another
Arthur Miller.
She was dealing with
domesticity which became universal. The reason the play works is that it’s
about family. It’s about people making choices. One of my favourite speeches
in the play is when we discover Lena Younger’s son Walter Lee has
wasted all the money and she says to the daughter:
“It’s not when they're all being lovely that you love them.
It’s when it hurts. When they are not being good people
that's how you know how much you love somebody”.
(Lena Younger, A Raisin In The Sun)
It is a play about humanity. Every inch of it. It’s about a black
family in Chicago. It was her experience, her roots and her history. But
you can put it anywhere and it works. You can transpose it and every culture
has that struggle. It’s not only about poverty, it is about aspiring for
something else. It is about the obstacles you face, whatever they are.
Raisin just happened to be about ‘race’
politics. She wrote it beautifully. I was about to do Breakfast
With Mugabe but a speech in the play which
I'm paraphrasing, so forgive me but I will never forget. “I can be really
brilliant at something and I may be held as some kind of saint or I can
be really bad and my people will want to kill me”. Every time, I think
of Mandela and Mugabe. Because they both started off in the right place
with the
right passion but then life happened and took them in different ways.
PJ Cobham: Winning the Olivier Award must have
been amazing time?
ND: Oh Jackie it was…. I mean I got to wear this amazing frock. Little things like that!
PJ Cobham: That’s what makes us girls, girls, right?
ND: (Laughing) Absolutely!
PJ Cobham Forget about the award, it’s all about the frock.
ND: Absolutely. The shoes, the dress, but it was amazing to be
nominated.
When I got the call from David Lan to say that I had been nominated I said
what the **** and had to call him back. And considering the actors I had been nominated with, I was in awe. I mean you have to give respect to
those who have gone before you.
You also give respect to those who are
coming up, people like Benedict Cumberbatch and Paul Ritter; David
Bradley who is gorgeous… and you think 'Oh my God I'm in
this company' and for me that was what was exciting, more than anything to
be in great
company. And when I won I sort of gabbled.
PJ Cobham: An award winner’s speech is not a speech unless it's bad!
ND: (Laughing) Thanks for that Jackie. But it’s so true.
PJ Cobham: What makes you decide to give a script a second look?
ND: It’s not always the script. A lot of the time it’s to do with
the person I'm going to be working with. It’s all different things that
pull me. Sometimes it’s the company, but generally it’s who's working on
the project, that gets me. It’s got to be about the people.
PJ Cobham: You've only gone and done Doctor Who as well.
ND: (Laughing) Yes. I've been very lucky and I didn't realise
how lucky until
my nephew told me because he is a Doctor Who nerd. But I didn't really
watch it. I mean I know David Tennant was brilliant in it, but other than
that...
I got to play this unit officer five months after giving birth. It was
small part but loved it. I had a lovely day working with Lee Evans. It’s
those experiences you hold onto.
PJ Cobham: : Every actor has a ‘Wish List’ of who they would like to work with. Who's on yours?
ND: Oh gosh, it changes all the time. Let me think about this, it’s hard.
Sometimes I watch something and think 'I’d like to work with them'.
I’d like to work with Chitewel Ejiofor again, it is a pleasure to watch
him work. I’d love to do Broadway. That would be exciting. I would
love that opportunity. Although I love film, I love theatre.
PJ Cobham: Convince Precious readers to come and see ‘A Winters’ Tale.
ND: I am a woman of colour, I have got the opportunity to play
a fantastic role.
A strong female character who is seen as a protagonist. She makes things happen.
If Precious readers want to see themselves represented;
come and
see the play. Definitely. It is a great part for any woman and seeing a Black
woman playing the part is fantastic.
PJ Cobham: Finally Noma...Life is???
ND: Sweet....and it’s scary.
You can catch Noma in The Winter's Tale which plays in repertoire
at the RSC's, Courtyard Theatre, Stratford-upon-Avon until 3 October
2009. Book tickets here.
In Conversation with: Patricia Cumper
By P J Cobham
The first thing you notice about Patricia Cumper, Artistic Director of Talawa Theatre Company, is her boundless energy and her endearing 100 mile a minute chatter heavily accented with her Jamaican accent. Cumper has been writing for theatre here in the UK and in the Caribbean for nearly thirty years. Her work has been produced throughout the Caribbean, Canada and the US, and her first work to appear in the UK 'The Fallen Angel and The Devil's Concubine' was staged at the Almeida (London) in the late 1980s.
Her 2002 play, 'The Key Game', commissioned by Talawa and produced at the Riverside Theatre was included in Time Out's Critics Choice and won four-star reviews. Her work for radio includes adapting Rita Dove's ‘Darker Face of the Earth’ for the World Service and most recently a fifteen-part serialisation of Andrea Levy’s ‘Small Island’ for Woman's Hour.
In addition to her theatre work, Cumper has worked as a critic and commentator on Radio 4 and the World Service, in addition to being a script reader and dramaturg. If that’s not enough she’s written a novel and has had several short stories published. I began by asking what drew her to London and accepting the role of Artistic Director at Talawa, London’s’ leading black theatre company.
PJ Cobham: Talawa is now twenty-three years old. What makes it the company it is and what drew you to accepting the role of Artistic director after founder Yvonne Brewster decided to call it a day?
Patricia :( Amused) There were two artistic directors between Yvonne and me.
Paulette Randall and Ben Thomas. I think the thing about Talawa, is to
consider why it should exist. I believe there are stories we need to tell.
Black British experiences that are not being talked about in the way that
we live it and would like it to be talked about. That I believe is one
of the reasons we need Talawa. The range of theatre practitioners that
we have bring so much talent and so many opportunities, so Talawa has to
stay for that reason alone and of course to develop new talent. And it
is about audiences. We want audiences to see our work. It’s about telling
the black British story that you haven't seen anywhere else.
PJ Cobham: So what is Talawa's strategy for generating new audiences?
PC: It really does depend. Of course there was a time when black productions were rare and were considered a political thing. Now there is more black theatre and there is a huge amount of work that we are competing with, so one of the things we have to achieve is to market our work effectively and try to produce work that is of the highest standard and that our audiences will find interesting.
The core of the Talawa audience is women from the ages of 25 and above. They
are passionate theatre goers and are interested in everything around them.
They are arguably the most socially mobile people around. They are the
heart of our audiences, although there is a much wider audience too.
British theatre is very structured now and a lot of work is based around people
buying tickets in advance. We tend to find our audiences want to turn up
and buy a ticket on the night. But what happens is that venues get very
nervous because we can’t guarantee what the audience is going to be on
any given night. We have to think about all of those things. Theatre does
tend to have an image of being exclusive and excluding perhaps. Sometimes
its not the friendliest experience in the world, they may love the work
but the challenge we have at Talawa is that because we don't have a theatre
of our own…yet, we have to produce and find space where we can. And build
partnerships so that we can deliver productions. In that respect we have
to work even harder to get audiences in and at times it works against us.
It’s something we work very hard at.
PJ Cobham: Your career path has been global and across different disciplines. Was that a conscious decision?
PC: I think I just wanted to survive. I definitely knew I wanted to write but
I needed to survive so what I did was to get as many skills as I possibly
could. I work for radio which is a lovely thing to write for. I just adapted
The Color Purple which was one of the best experiences I've had in a long
time. I've done a lot of other things. I've been an interim coach, information
officer and all sorts of other things.
It {theatre} is a difficult business to survive in. If you think about it, a paid commission in a mid-scale theatre will be about £7000. It takes you a year and a half to write a really good play. Clearly you have to be able to do other things to survive. But in a way it is a good thing because it has brought me to this job and a whole range of different experiences and different ways of tackling problems.
PJ Cobham: So it’s a good thing that you are a jack-of-all-trades?
PC: (Laughing) I think of it as strength. But what I feel passionate about is
building Talawa into a place where if I left tomorrow, the company is so
strong that other people can come in and the company would go forward.
I think that is what we need now. We need institutions where actors can
come in and have tertiary productions that can launch them. We have had
so many wonderful people come and work with us and they all say when they
come through the door: it feels like home, you know? And that to me is
what's special about Talawa.
PJ Cobham: So what's your view on the state of black theatre in general and the position of black women especially behind the scenes?
PC: Oh that's a huge question! There are wonderful women writers now that are writing more powerfully. There is a body of edited writers such as the likes of Michael Bhim and so on…. For me there are credible women writers and directors: Paulette Randall, Josette Bushell-Mingo to name two, but there are not enough as far as I'm concerned and I don't think there are enough young ones under 30 who want to be directors, you know?
I know from the friendships with these women that it is frustrating for them because a lot of the time they are expected to do Black work and as a director what you want to do is to create work not just “Black Work. There is also the fact that there is not enough employment for them. I do believe there are still glass ceilings. I think things are slowly changing but…. there is a humongous amount of talent. It is amazing to me.
PJ Cobham: So what is the solution then? We have the talent yet we are still struggling. Is that our lot - to struggle?
PC: I could talk for hours on this subject. There are a lot of factors. The Arts Council want us to be more diverse, we can get the actors on stage but what we don’t have is a change in the power structures. Boards tend to be middle-class white males, and it is a difficult and often a long-term process to get people to understand that the Black British experience is a British experience. We are in exactly the same society and we suffer exactly the same things, the difference is we just see it from a different perspective.
In terms of women, the office that I work in, myself, the executive director,
the administrator, the education, finance and marketing personnel are all
women. One of our greatest strengths is our adaptability. We do virtually
everything and we can move from one role to another very quickly. I am
not saying that men don't, but what I found is that women will say, “I
don't know much about this, but I am willing to find out”. But if you were
to ask me straight out if black women get a raw deal in theatre I’d have
to say no. I mean you have leading lights such as Randall and Bushell-Mingo.
I can always call half a dozen names but what there ought to be are more
theatre companies like Talawa. There ought to be theatres that you don’t
have to stop at the door and say “please can I come in I’m not going to
offend your audiences”. You want them to say, “Yes I know your work, come
in and use our space”. I would say theatre is definitely better than it
was ten years ago and I hope to God not as good as it would be in ten years time.
PJ Cobham: So Patricia, where do you see yourself in ten years?
PC: Oh, I have no idea. I hope that I would be working with younger, smaller theatre companies. I am also very interested in the idea of writing in a collective, collaborative way with maybe a dancer or visual artist or percussionist or somebody to create work with, from the beginning that incorporated all of that. That is the kind of work I would be interested in. I hope that I would be working in some capacity with companies that have passion and vision and help them to realise that and maybe because of who I am they might be Black companies but they may not be. For me it is about creating work that would be tremendously exciting and with the talent that I have come into contact with at Talawa.
PJ Cobham: It’s Anansi time again. Why should Precious readers come and see it?
PC: Well, it’s a cautionary tale and is everything about Black Britain, that's one. Two, it has the most amazing cast introducing Kat who is adorable as Anansi. We also have Tameka Epson and Marcus Powell. There is music, there is dance, there is a great deal of humour, there is all sorts of magic and the director has done a host of amazing things for people to come and see. Anansi is a family show. I firmly believe that theatre should be shared by families, things that you can enjoy together. That's the sort of thing that builds communities. It is about sharing other people’s cultures. It’s about coming out and experiencing a different culture and being entertained in the process. Paul J Medford is directing, Delroy Murray is doing the music. He's done a lot of the 291 shows, panto that kind of thing. We have put together a great show and it is in Hackney. We also have an Anansi storyteller doing performances site-specific, barbershops, and places like that. We are trying to make it an all round fun experience.
IN CONVERSATION WITH DAVID AJALA
With roles in A Dark Knight, Adulthood and the lead in a BBC sitcom, David Ajala is fast becoming a young British actor to watch. Currently appearing in the RSC’s A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Amardeep Sohi catches up with him between rehearsals.
Amardeep Sohi: You’re currently playing Cobweb in
The Royal Shakespeare Company’s production of A Midsummer Night’s Dream, which is a fantastic production by the way. What have you enjoyed most about
this role?
David Ajala: I’ve enjoyed a few things. A lot of what we developed for the production came from a series of different ideas and trial and error. When we started I told the director Greg that I could do acrobatics and break dancing and it was cool to experiment with this even though we didn’t end up using it. I think with anything you do, however big or small the part you have to be able to put your stamp on it which is what you bring to that part. That’s what I try to do with all that I do, however big or small.
AS: In this particular production, the fairies (including Cobweb) appear as demonic dolls puppeteered by the cast and I have to say they leave quite an impression on the audience. Did you find working with them a little strange?
DA: I wasn’t sure how we would play the fairies, so when we were told that we were experimenting and playing with dolls, I just took to it. I remember playing around with the dolls in rehearsals and we were moving them towards Steven Tiplady who had to tell us to slow it down. It was at that moment we realised these fairies had the potential to be dangerous as well as mischievous.
AS: You’re also the understudy for Lysander, one of the principal male characters and Snug. Have you ever had to go on as an understudy?
DA: We were just actually rehearsing it now in our rehearsals because we have an understudy run next week and the idea is just to make sure everyone is familiar with the set and has the experience of being their understudy character so that when you do go on, you’re warmed up. I have gone on as an understudy before for Hamlet. These things do happen; I’ve had to go on three times.
AS: How did you find going on at the last minute?
DA: The first time was just before press night. I knew the part and I knew what I was doing so I wasn’t too scared but it was just a little strange. I really enjoyed it and the company were so supportive.
AS: You don’t secretly hope you’ll get the chance to go on…?
DA: I would love to go on as Lysander and Snug but I know to be able to would mean bad news for the other actors and I wouldn’t wish that on any of the cast members. I might hide them in the cupboard or something and sneak on stage though.
AS: So that’s where they should look if you ever go on as Lysander?
DA: Oh no, I shouldn’t have said that!
AS: Going back to Shakespeare, there’s often a stigma attached to his work that it’s inaccessible and difficult, do you think that’s changing?
DA: I definitely think that’s changing, I think that it’s one of those things that if someone doesn’t fully understand it then they may be in a position to be more negative towards it. It’s a bit extreme but I think if you were going to watch a foreign film without subtitles, you may not understand it word for word but you would understand how the characters are feeling, you’d understand where the conflict is and you’d understand what the character’s objective is. You would get all of this without even understanding the language. Shakespeare is far from being a foreign language, but I think well performed Shakespeare is well understood. And it’s always said that Shakespeare isn’t to be read, it’s to be performed. Like any play, the script comes to life when you perform it and Shakespeare’s language is so rich and beautiful.
AS: So what inspired you to start acting?
DA: I think it was just being able to make people laugh, that’s what it was. I went to Kingsland Secondary School in Hackney and like in a lot of inner schools in London, you have to be able to stand your ground. I found myself in a position where if I didn’t stand my ground people would just pick on me. So because I was a bit of a joker I could get out of it and people wouldn’t pick on me. I don’t think you ever really remember the moment where you think I’m going to be an actor. Acting just gave me a platform to express myself. It was a release and an opportunity to meet new people and try different ideas. I went to amateur theatre school and from then I went to the Courtyard Theatre. From there I got a new agent and got to work on a variety of new things.
AS: I just met Sam Alexander who plays Philostrate in the green room and he told me to ask you how your apprenticeship is going?
DA: Ha ha! Because I’m the youngest in the company, Sam sees my position as being on an apprenticeship because I don’t have huge parts. I have small parts here and there and great understudy parts and the way I see it, being with the RSC for nearly a year is like round two of drama school. It’s almost like me building a new foundation and learning new things and kind of making investments in a future career. I’ve learnt so much with the RSC. After the run finishes here I’m blessed to be able to go on to the National Theatre. Again it’s just about learning new things and being able to work on a platform where the calibre of work is to such a great standard and it’s so enjoyable.
AS: What will you be appearing in at the National?
DA: Death and the Kings Horseman by Wole Soyinka. So the apprenticeship is going well and I’m getting paid for it which is good!
AS: What role or part have you been most proud of?
DA: Without sounding cheesy it’s almost like any part that you take on board, you develop it, you go through the hardship of a character and when you take it to the rehearsal stage it’s almost like witnessing a child’s birth. So you just become attached to it and yes you may have a preference, just like you may love your first born child or your second child, but you have a love for them all. That’s how I am, but it’s been great. I’ve been doing so many things. I was actually offered a place at the RSC last year but I had to turn it down because I was doing a TV series called Trexx ‘n’ Flipside which is like Laurel and Hardy meets hip hop. I got to play Flipside which was awesome. It’s a sitcom which was originally on BBC 3 and is now on BBC 2. I’m going to do a bit of plugging now; it’s on BBC 2 on Saturdays at 1.40pm. I also worked on the Batman movie which was awesome.
AS: Yes, I saw that in your profile. What part did you play in Batman?
DA: I was The Joker’s sidekick.
AS: That was a phenomenal movie. How did that part come about?
DA: When I auditioned for it they didn’t tell me that it was for the new Batman movie, they told me it was for a role in a film called Rory’s First Kiss. My agent told me to go to meet the casting director Lucinda Heller. I went in for the audition and I took on board Lucinda’s enthusiasm and support and just did what I needed to do. The day after my agent told me I’d got the part in Rory’s First Kiss and I was loving that. It was a feature film and although I didn’t know what part I was playing – it was a feature film. Two days later she gave me a call again and said “David we’ve done our research and you’re actually going to be working on the new Batman movie”. I remember being in my mum’s kitchen and she was just jumping up and down and dancing and it was awesome.
AS: It was the anniversary of Heath Ledger’s death this week. What was it like working with him on the film?
DA: It’s funny because I didn’t really know Heath’s work. I knew he did Brokeback Mountain and Monster’s Ball but I hadn’t seen him in it. I remember meeting him and talking to him and he was just the nicest guy, he was just so cool. On the day of filming when I saw Heath as The Joker for the first time, it was scary. When you saw him do his takes it was just incredible, it was like a master class in acting. He stayed in character between takes throughout, playing with cards or doing some tricks. When Chris Nolan would say, “number ones at the ready” he would just morph back into The Joker with this intense evilness and scariness. I’ve never seen anything like it. I would look at him and think this guy is going to win awards for this.
AS: You’re only 22 but you’ve worked across film, theatre, TV and radio. Which medium do you prefer?
DA: Um, someone else asked me this recently. When I was working on Trexx ‘n’ Flipside I really enjoyed it, but I missed theatre. I missed having that live reaction and for comedy you need to have that to give you that extra energy. But now I’m here doing theatre I miss doing tv and film.I just enjoy doing it all, but I do want to do some more feature films.
AS: Are there any actors in particular you’d like to work with?
DA: Ah yes, I’ve got a list. Chiwetel Ejiofar. I would love to work with him, beyond being a fellow Nigerian he is an incredible actor and he recently played Othello which I’m gutted to have missed. I just think he’s a great actor with great versatility and his skills have not only allowed him to work in this country but also in the US. I would also love to work with Meryl Streep, I think she’s just flawless, she’s so solid. I’ll just mention those two, because my list is too long.
AS: Who would be your leading lady?
DA: Who would be my leading lady…ok let me just say this for the record: my Mrs. That woman would be my leading lady.
AS: That’s very sweet.
DA: On a professional level it would be Angelina Jolie. I think as well as being a beautiful woman she is so talented.
AS: Where do you see yourself in five years?
DA: In five years….I see myself by God’s grace just doing what I love to do, it’s that simple. When I say doing what I love doing, that could be looking after kids or spending time with my family more, because this profession can be quite hard sometimes.
AS: What advice would you give to aspiring actors?
DA: OK, you have to know the reason why you’re getting into acting in the first place. A lot of people might decide to become an actor from watching awards ceremonies and seeing celebrities in magazines. You have to look at it from the right side of the coin; the reason they’re in that place is because they’ve had to go through x, y and z to get there. Go to stage school, to express yourself and learn your craft. Also, you have to have an entrepreneurial mind frame because we all have bills to pay. You have to try and pursue different avenues to bring in the cash to allow you to have the flexibility to focus on acting. And enjoy, enjoy and enjoy.
For more information go to: www.rsc.org.uk